Alright, I am the designated reporter for the brunch. I made the same mistake I made for my first two signings and didn't take notes for most of the brunch until we thought of the report and I got some pen and paper and jotted down all we could remember of what was said previously, as well as putting down everything else that came after. Hopefully, this will jog some other people's memories and they can add some stuff I missed, especially Jaehaerys who will now be known as the Questioner because of his fearless barrage of varied questions to George.
I'll leave the book tidbits for last as I am a book junkie and I always like to save the best for last.
The attendees were George, Blackfyre Heir, Bronn Stone and gf Yelena, KatieG, Veira, Xavier, Jaehaerys and his wife, and myself.
I arrived early and hung out in the lobby after checking to see that our reservation was in place. Bronn Stone and Yelena came in then we chatted for awhile. Then George arrived followed by Blackfyre Heir soon after. Then Xavier arrived and Jaehaery and his wife. We went upstairs to find KatieG and Veira in the brunch lobby.
The food was fabulous. I told George it was like a feast from ASOIAF. George replied he hoped they didn't play the "Rains of Castamere."
We discussed the RPG and how it is going under. Some of their freelancers have not been paid.
George is not pleased that Roy Dotrice was left out of the AFFC audiobook. Roy had other committments and the suits didn't want to wait for him; they wanted to get the audiobook out at the same time.
Blackfyre Heir and KatieG were displeased with Testors and how they cashed their checks/credit cards but didn't send them the goods. Evidently, the guy who did the work is the best in the business.
George is enthusiastic about the Giant's prospects but not so much for the Jets though he thinks they are not the worst in the NFL.
George is excited about Subterranean Press.
George thinks an HBO series of miniseries' would be best for the book. All offers must come through him and he is open to something.
George wants us to go easy on Terry Goodkind. His webmaster said to George, "If you can't something say something nice, don't say anything at all" to which George responded, "Am I Thumper?"
We talked about the fandom and its diversity, how we're pretty even in our male to female ratio (the brunch was 5 to 4 male). Lodengarl and Aghrivaine were mentioned and how Aghrivaine is a flake smiley2.gif (He didn't make it to the brunch).
He is looking forward to getting back to work and not really looking forward to it. He wants to work but dreads looking at the blank screen.
ComicCon is a humongous affair with 100,000 people IIRC. WorldCon got to 8,000 in 1984 and everyone freaked. So they toned it down and that was as high as it ever got. As a professional, George would want WorldCon to be bigger but he likes the smallness as a fan. He knows about the chess match we are planning. BH said that it slipped out. George is not sure what team he will take and he gets to choose who he will play.
For those that volunteer at WorldCon, George will give a collectible ASOIAF item. We know but we'll never tell. smiley2.gif Now you can all speculate on what it is.
He is meeting with DC comics today about a Wildcards comic. The new WildCards are not set in comic book time so they will have new characters. George wrote the Turtle, Xavier, Popinjay, Desmond and the Body Snatcher.
He liked working on Windhaven with Lisa Tuttle but the time has past for a sequel though he pushed for it when the time was right.
Dajamieson will run the trivia contest so my chances went up by about a factor of about, oh, infinity.
Book Stuff
George regrets that Cersei and Dany will not be contrasted directly. I told him of how some dedicated boarders try to defeat him and piece together a timeline. George replied that he tries to keep it vague.
He likes the extra breathing room to flesh out the characters. Bran didn't have any chapters and Dany's ending was different. Now he likes the way she ended. I think he actually may be doing more with Dany.
He repeated that some characters from Feast will come in at the end of ADWD.
I told George that when he changed Viserys I from a son to a brother he created an error in that Baelor's sisters did not inherit the throne after him, George replied that women came after all men in the Targaryen succession after TDWD. Something interesting and neatly explains Daena and the rest not becoming queen.
To settle an old debate on EZBoard, any king can make a knight but any lord cannot. That lord must be a knight as well. So Baelor I could make knights but Eddard could not. George said the more important thing for kings is making lords. The problem is giving lands.
[Note: The struck claim below is being kept in to highlight the fact that it is struck. The original submitter has come forward to admit that GRRM did not state this, and that it was his own insertion. We are very disappointed, and offer our apologies for offering an erroneous report, especially one on such an important matter to fans who have wondered about this particular topic and have been misled by this entry in the So Spake Martin.]
To all those who doubted, Azor Ahai Reborn and the prince that was promised are two versions of the same prophesied savior/redeemer that is supposed to come.
And the biggest tidbit, in my humble opinion, is:
SPOILER: Possible for ADWD
The second Dance of Dragons does not have to mean Dany's invasion.
Geroge stopped himself short and said he shouldn't say anymore. The response came because of my question of whether the dance would take place in ADWD because AFFC and ADWD parallel. So now my friends, speculate away.
That was all I wrote down or remembered. Hopefully others will come up with stuff. Thanks BH for getting this thing together. It was nice to meet all of you and I look forward to seeing most of you at Worldcon (make it up for the party Saturday Jaehaerys).
[Note: The following post refers to the re-release of GRRM's novella, "The Ice Dragon", as a children's novel from Tor's Starscape imprint. It discusses claims that the story has been relocated to Westeros and the changes that had to made to it to be suitable for a younger audience.]
Martin was asked about this on one of the panels I saw him on at San Diego Comic-Con. He didn't indicate that it was part of Westeros at all. In fact he said it was based on an old story that he wrote.
He also didn't really say it was a kid's story, but that it was modified to be one. To be specific, he said, "I just had to edit out > the brutal rape and it was good to go." He also said that the editors had pressed him to give them something else along similiar lines, and he couldn't come up with anything with as sweet a tone...
Just so everyone knows where on the page I am, I've read the first two books and have the third sitting in the "to read" pile although I'm re-reading the second. The fourth I have to wait to come out in paper, until/unless I get a job. The names of the books, as I told [info]electorprince play tag with each other in my head so it's just easier to call them "first book", "second book" etc. Or I'll have to make up a little mnemonic sentence.
He started by answering everyone's number one question, that he doesn't know when the new book will be out. He's aiming to hand them to the publishers by the end of the year, and after that it's out of his hands. The British publishers manage to consistently put the book out a month before the Yanks though.
The concoction of this book involved splitting the fourth book into two because he'd gone so long, revising and expanding it.
He said that if you want to know all he knows about publication dates and the like, go to his web site ([url=http://www.georgerrmartin.com]http://www.georgerrmartin.com[/url]). Don't believe Amazon, your local bookseller, the rumour mill etc, go to his website and that's the truth right there.
He then proceded to read for about 45 minutes. The scene ended with Melisendre talking to Jon Snow. She observes that it's cold today and he says it's always cold on the Wall. "Do you think it?" she asks. "I know it," he answers. "Then you know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispers.
At the Q&A session, the first question asked was how he'd come up with the idea for this monstrous series. GRRM said that the first chapter of the first book "just came to him" with all the characters and situations involved. He was actually writing another book, Avalon, which of course ended up never being written. His Hollywood work slowed him down with "Game of Thrones" but when he finally got back to it it was still fresh and vivid in his mind, unlike other works he'd had to take hiatuses from in the past.
He was asked about how he balanced killing off characters with keeping readers involved with the surviving ones. GRRM admitted that he likes outraging readers. "Writing is all about emotion," he said, as reading is for vicarious intense situations. He likes to read books that engage his emotions and so likes to write them. He wants the reader to be almost afraid to turn the page, in order to establish that he plays for keeps and no character is safe. He started doing this in the Wild Cards series.
He was asked about viewpoint characters, of which there are many. He said that even for minor viewpoint characters he gives them a few chapters so that he is telling a story about that character and not just using them for point of view.
GRRM warned that we should expect a sizable body count soon, as he's been introducing characters without killing any of them off.
One of the people asking questions was Army, and has just gotten back from Iraq. He thanked GRRM for all he'd written and GRRM thanked *him*. The question was on how GRRM came up with the characters, and GRRM said ultimately, he is all of them. At this point some wag in the audience chimed up with "Cersei?" GRRM said that of course he's never been a woman, or a dwarf, or an 11 year old girl, although he has been a fat guy. He said it was necessary to try to see the world through their eyes although ultimately as humans the only person we ever really know is ourselves. This character development is why the books don't come out once a month.
On being asked about "the casting game" (picking actors to play the characters), he said the only one who he would definitely choose was Ron Perlman to play Sandor "The Hound" Clegane because of Perlman's aptitude for acting through prosthetics. Child actors are hard to find, good ones at least, and Tyrion would be the most difficult adult to cast because of the very small pool of talent who are dwarves.
He said Arya may appear at the end of book 5.
As for his writing process, he starts every day with his morning coffee, sits down, and tweaks what he wrote the day before. That usually gives him the momentum to keep going. Some days he "falls in through the computer screen" and next thing he knows it's dark and the coffee is still there and cold. On the other hand, some days he just checks his e-mail over and over.
He assured us that we will someday find out how seasons work in his world, and that it will not be a scientific explanation because hello, it's a fantasy novel. He said that some fans have written him with fantastic explanations involving two suns, one of which is a black dwarf but that they will be disappointed.
Finally, he said he'd love to see, say, an HBO mini-series, but would HBO love to see it?
I went. He read the first Jon chapter from Dance with Dragons (which I won't go into here because of obvious spoilers). Then he took questions from the audience for the rest of the time. For the most part he didn't say anything we haven't already heard from other interviews. I haven't read every interview with him ever so it may be something people already know, but someone asked him about the whole "dream casting" thing, and he said that he thinks Ron Perlman would make a great Sandor Clegane. Let's see what else... It was mostly stuff he's said other places, that there will be one new POV in the next book and that people we adore are going to die. Most of the questions people asked were about his writing method and such. I had to leave a little early to get to the Battlestar panel (sacrilege, I know), so I may have missed some. He did an extra signing today too and was giving away free copies of Game of Thrones (paperback reissues). Anyway I took notes on the Jon chapter, but I imagine someone might already have posted that from another con. If not I'll post something after the end of the weekend if people want and it wouldn't be a total faux pas.
[Veira later noted that the word "adore" was part of his paraphrasing, and was not necessarily a quote of what GRRM said. Suffice it to say, in any case, GRRM indicated that significant characters from the novels can be expected to die.]
He did another panel yesterday with R.A. Salvatore and a few other authors that was really entertaining. I missed the beginning of it on account of the shuttle being late, did anyone catch it? Also if anyone saw the Snakes on a Plane thing today I'm curious what they did. As far as I know he won't be doing a reading on Saturday since it's another shared panel. So there won't really be time for that.
[Additional reporting from the panel.]
It seemed like not many other people made it to the Thursday panel, or if they did they haven't posted anything about it. If you missed it and were wondering what was talked about, a lot of the same questions were asked on the Friday & Saturday panels. Of course, not all the questions were for GRRM; he was sharing the panel with R.A. Salvatore, Elizabeth Bear, Jenna Rhodes and Anne Groell. That's what the program said, anyway, but there was another author there whose name I didn't catch who is a veterinarian (?). I was late, afterall, but I really do suck at this. No more note taking for me! Since no one else has posted about Thursday, I'll keep on going, but it ain't gonna be pretty
There was some fairly humorous banter between GRRM and Salvatore, who at one point asked GRRM if he has a giant, wall-sized whiteboard in his house to keep track of all the ice & fire characters that he then puts red X's through when they get killed. GRRM replied that's what his fans on the message board are for lol.gif
Some of the points that wound up being repeated in later panels included some discussion of the "architect" (build the world first, a la Tolkien) vs. "gardener" (plant a seed and tend it as it grows) approaches to writing, GRRM coming from the gardener camp. He also talked about making danger to any given character feel real by establishing early on that he's "playing for keeps" by killing a main character. Otherwise, readers tend to think of main characters as invincible (the whole 'he's not going to die, he's the hero!' thing) and as a result the story isn't as engaging. At one point an audience member asked the panel something about making young-reader-friendly material, in response to which GRRM expressed his concern at receiving fan letters from 11 year olds, wondering if their parents know what they're reading.
R.A. Salvatore said some pretty funny stuff too, such as one time he couldn't remember what various tricks/goodies/whatnots a particular character had used up, so he anonymously posted on a message board asking what people thought that character had left in his backpack. He got about 10 pages in response and saved himself a lot of work. He also said that he majored in math in college. At least for me, it was very reassuring to hear that if you 'accidentally' went into math/science it's still possible to change careers so dramatically.
[Note: The following is a brief excerpt from the owner of Clarkesworld Books, a particularly popular bookseller among ASoIaF fans due to his excellent service and his stock of hard-to-get GRRM novels and collections.]
After John left, I decided to drop by the signing tables since George R. R. Martin was scheduled. Much to my surprise, there was no one in line. I spoke to George for a couple of minutes and asked him if he would mind signing a small stack of A Feast for Crows for the store. Yes! I ran off, picked up the books, came back down, and there was still no one there. While signing, I asked George about the RRetrospective. He told me that a UK edition was in the works and that iBooks had wanted to do a two book version, but he refused. (good thing since iBooks just went chapter 11) He suggested that I bug Bill at Subterranean to do a second printing.
...
Oh and the reason for turning down a two volume edition was that the the whole point of the RRetrospective was to get everything in one book.
So this panel immediately preceded Martin's reading, and a lot of time was actually spent on discussing how much GRRM likes to hurt his characters. Other sadists included Ginjer Buchanan - who doubled as moderator - Esther Friesner - who tried to keep the tone light - Paul Park and Melissa Scott.
Ginjer noted up front that the panel was "created so George can explain why he continues to do horrible things to his characters." Martin responded, saying "I'm sorry," which was immediately shouted down by "No, you're not!" and he had to admit, indeed, he was not sorry. He does, however, sometimes envision his characters coming out to contfront him Jerry Springer-style, with Ned leading the pack, carrying his head under his arm.
Prompted, he noted that he doesn't think he's particularly depressed. Rather, the things that shape you as an artist happen when you're younger. He always saw the past as being somehow better than the present - a state caused much more by the financial circumstances of his family than the kind of past found in Westeros. In fact, he derives a great deal of creativity depicting the age that comes after the Golden Age of a place. That statement is particularly telling when one considers how many of the elder characters in A Song of Ice and Fire regard the Tournament at Harrenhal in the year of false spring.
The focus of the panel then shifted to Esther, who described her inner darkness as "the dark tupperware in the refrigerator of my soul." She said that she learned a lot about not letting the sorrow overwhelm you but to struggle to make the sorrow and pain worthwhile from her parents - her mother is a breast cancer survivor and her father a Holocaust survivor who lost his first wife and child in the camps. That is perhaps a longer sentence than one should have, but I am tired and too lazy to break it up.
Melissa then reminded everyone to never write a love song when actually in love as it always turns out badly. From there, through levels of conversation I don't have preserved in notes, we progress to George stating his policy of killing off a significant character early on so that the reader understands that the danger is real and you're playing for keeps.
He also disagrees with the vast majority of genre books that have happy endings. He finds that inherently untrue. The moment he said that I flashed to Sansa and her "songs" that never quite come out the way she dreams them. George then related the story that when he was in little league he always knew he would hit a bottom of the ninth homer and win a game despite never having hit a ball during the game. It happened in the movies, why not to him?
The panel then agreed wholeheartedly with his statement that the Scouring of the Shire is evokative, costly, and profound. That ending, and not the one of the fields of Cormallen or the white tower of Minas Tirith is what sets the LotR trilogy apart in its greatness. Esther also pointed out that there are three typical endings - happy, tragic, and bittersweet, with the last being the best kind.
Sunday morning I was running late, but I still managed to make it to the GRRM kaffeklatch which was bizarrely empty. Those there theorized it had more than a little to do with the relatively early hour - 11AM, and George himself had been up until 4 the night before - and it being the last day of the con. Kaffeklatches are relatively informal, so part of it was spent discussing football and baseball. Then we moved on to actual books.
George mentioned that he felt really silly about that planned 5 year jump. He imagined it originally going something like Jon sitting on the Wall going "Well, it's been 5 fairly quiet years since I've been Lord Commander. But I'm starting to think that'll pick up now..." and realised that the adults wouldn't wait in their plot lines for Arya to hit puberty.
Likewise, he mentioned that the titles of the chapters in AFfC were a nod to how the characters think of themselves - most especially Sansa. He wants to get back to writing ADwD, but so far touring has severely curtailed his productivity.
queenofthorns, you will be happy to know that I did in fact ask him to wait on killing Jaime until book 7, to which the entire table laughed. But hey, I did try.
At the reading, George mentioned several things while taking questions - Tyrion is his favorite character, but extremely difficult to write a the moment. His chapters, though technically "done" in the early part of the novel are still getting revisions. The Red Wedding was probably the most difficult thing he's written - in fact he finished writing the manuscript of ASoS before he went back and wrote those chapters in. I now feel justified for not being able to read them yet.
SATURDAY
On Saturday my boyfriend and I attended a bunch of panels (separately). On my way down to the first one I ended taking the elevator down with GRRM! So I introduced myself and told him I'm a member of the BwB. He was actually staying on my floor. I told him I go by the name of Sorceress of Neverwords on the board and he asked if he should call me Sorceress. I told him he could call me by my real name but he replied that Sorceress is easier. I told him I'd be at his autograph session later on and then we reached the bottom and went our separate ways. I see why everyone says he is so approachable!
...
At 2:00 I attended GRRM's panel called "The strength of sadness: with mourning comes magic" where I ran into Pod, Race, Stego and the BwB. GRRM said a couple of interesting things about killing off his main characters. First, he mentioned killing them early so that his reader knows that his story is very real, and that his heroes are not immortal and can easily slay 150 orcs single-handedly. He said this lets the reader know that no one is safe, and that it helps build up the tension in a novel. Secondly, when asked if he regretted killing anyone off or if he wished he hadn't because he could use them later on, he basically said no.
At 3:00 we went to GRRM's reading where he read a previously-read chapter back when it was supposed to be a part of AFFC. It was a Tyrion chapter; and I'm glad I went because I feared I would be spoiled for ADWD. Hearing this chapter only whetted my appetite for more.
....
I talked to GRRM for a bit. My boyfriend wanted to know where he got the name Doran from and GRRM said he either made it up or found in a baby name book. I asked him if Eddard Stark was analogous to Lord Hastings since Robert was similar to Edward IV - and both Eddard and Hastings were suddenly beheaded without any warning. He said if I looked hard enough I could see many similarities to other historical figures - such as Henry VIII in Robert, and Richard III in Tyrion. Then I asked him if the setup for Margaery's arrest was based on what happened to Anne Boleyn who was also betrayed by a singer that was tortured, and then arrested on false information. He basically said that it was. None of his answers were straightforward though.
Anyway, we left the party at 12:30 am since we were by that time pretty tired. Race was disappointed - even though I told him I was old and decrepit and needed my sleep!
...
He mentioned something about five Lady Starks running Winterfell -- the Wolf Women or something like that -- with four of them widows of a bunch of fairly recent former Lord Starks, and the current Lady Stark, whose 30-something husband is fading fast from a wound taken from fighting the Ironborn.
GRRM did mention at last nights meal that he had been working on D&E Part 3 but wrapping it up wasn't as easy as he hoped. But he is close. Originally it took place right after tSS but now he has decided to give it a 1.5 year gap but that means another round of mods to ensure the timeline works. (A 1.5 year gap makes sense to me if he wants to continue to progress Egg's story up to and beyond him taking the crown). He also reminded me of the state of the Starks 100 years ago...
SPOILER: Starks 100 years ago
I was suggesting it would be nice to see the Starks in power, without the current disarray. But GRRM pointed out that things were not so good 90 years either, with a lot of Stark widows struggling for power, with the current lord dieing from a wound taken against some Ironborn. Although I could have the reason for his wound up. I'm reading the RPG game book at the moment and I might be mixing things together. There is a lot of Stark kids around though, so ending the line wasn't a problem. I think he said 10 children, from various Starks members.
Oh, and I don't know whether the Starks are actually going to feature in the next book. It does seem like he has an idea about a Stark story though.
Anyone remember what he called the Stark widows btw? Wolf crones or something?
I don't recall George mentioning anything about Dunk and Egg in particular. He of course was asked his publishing schedule for ADwD. George said he has been traveling so much he hasn't really had time to write much. But he only has one appearance between now and World Con which is a Columbus con over Memoroial day. So he expects to start making progress soon.
As others have said the reading was the first Tyrion Chapter.
George RR Martin, author of the bestselling series A Song of Ice and Fire, appeared at this year's Boskone science fiction convention in Boston. Martin read from A Dance with Dragons, the series' upcoming fifth installment, participated in several panel discussions on writing, and partied with one of his fan clubs, the Brotherhood without Banners. Boskone's special guest, author Cory Doctorow, also read from a forthcoming book and discussed both his past work with the Electronic Frontier Foundation and current developments in technology. Doctorow presented a list of style tips he hopes bloggers will adopt that include writing a descriptive headline and presenting a brief AP-style summary for people with no previous background in subject at the start of each entry. Cory, this paragraph is dedicated to you. ;)
Friday: I headed over to the Con on foot from the Med school and arrived a bit before George Martin's appearence in a panel on "Non-traditional Structures for the Multi-volume Novel". I was waiting outside the room for the previous panel when George arrived, so I welcomed him back to Boston after such a short absence, and he chuckled about how it seemed he'd hardly left. The panel topic might seem to be something he would be well suited to comment on, but the discussion got side-tracked into the mechanics the back end of publishing and distributing books. There was some interesting stuff in there: For example, apparently any book that's going to be much over 400 pages requires special high capacity binding presses that are less common and therefore more expensive to book time on, driving up the cost of the book. The upshot being, unless you have either a track record or something your publisher thinks is going to be the next Harry Potter, expect to have to keep your book around that length by the time it's finished with editing. We also learned that the way the Evil Barnes and Noble empire allocates shelf space is dependent on the number of copies of the book they order, which is generally going to be capped at whatever number of copies your last book sold, so expect less and less prominent display space unless your book makes it big and sells out at launch.
I asked the panel a question about how an author deals with no longer being able to revise portions of a multi-volume epic because they're already out in print. It was clear from their faces that this issue is the bane of their collective existence. George expressed envy for Tolkein having the luxury to finish all of LotR before taking it to be published. One of the other panelists lamented that he'd have to go back and re-read all of his old stuff one of these days because his tale has gone from being 90% one point of view character to over half of the book told from various other viewpoints. He said that he was now having to weave an arc where the protagonist discovers that people have been lying to her in order to justify changes to plot points from several books back. George snickered a "Been there." George also remarked that, however much it makes sense to do so, Stephen King going back and revising older installements of the Dark Tower series now that it is finally complete strikes him as slightly cheating.
stegoking stopped by this journal after my three Vericon reports (Note: reports discuss what info we were able to drag out of George about the fifth book at the Con) to mention that the Brotherhood without Banners, one of George's fanclubs, would be at Boskone. (Apparently one of his fellow posters has a Mr. Universe setup from whence he trawls the web for any and all tales of George Martin. Hi Stego's friend, if you're reading this.:)) So I wandered up to the party, where I promptly obtained a pretzel, figuring that it counts as a bread-like product and has salt, thus making me safe for the evening as a guest by the customs of Westeros. :)
That matter out of the way, I was served a drink called "drowned man" by a girl answering to the callsign "Goat of Nymeria", and I met Stego, Stego's wife, and a number of other people who were good company and whose names I have no chance in heck of remembering. (I'm terrible with names in general and large rooms of people none of whom I know in particular, so I did my best to socialize. :)) Stego wanted to know whether I had recorded the Westeros Celebrity Jeopardy skit (Book 1-4 spoilers) from Vericon, because he found it hard to imagine that anyone would remember the dialog that well without a recording. (My girlfriend refers to my memory as freakish that way. It probably won't help my defense to point out that I didn't actually write everything I remembered down, just the funnier stuff, or that I still remember a decent portion of it even though I only saw the thing once approximately three weeks ago.) George himself arrived shortly clad in the Squid Sigil of House Greyjoy. We subsequently had to explain to a random con-goer who came in how this did not mark us a cult of Cthulhu. Anyways, I was a bit tired and planned to be up early the next morning, so I headed homewards.
Saturday: ...
After that, it was off to George's next panel on the use of death and sad events in stories, which the moderator described as being about "Why George Does Such Awful Things To His Characters". George was chuckling maniacally through a fair portion of this panel, and joked in his introduction that his worst nightmares envision being on the Jerry Springer show and having a bunch of his dead characters show up to air their grievances, head literally in hand. He did draw a distinction between killing a character early on to "establish that you're playing for keeps" (i.e. so that the reader will feel suspense in future dangerous situations) versus killing a character towards the end of an arc towards more of a bittersweet/tragic ending. There was some discussion amongst the other end of the table about how sometimes one doesn't WANT to kill off a character and/or is prodded in that direction by an editor, but it was agreed that George needs no such encouragement. Asked at the end whether he regretted offing a character, George thought for a minute. His eyes narrowed, he stroked his beard thoughtfully, and he replied confidently - "No." If he and Joss ever get together, the world may end.
Next up was George's reading. I was speculating on what character we were going to get. George had commented at Vericon that he was having trouble with the Jon chapters, he'd read the first Davos chapter there, and the first Dany chapter appears as a preview at the end of book 4, so I guessed that we were going to get Tyrion. The day was mine, but I won't spoil it here unless people want more details. George took questions afterwards, and revealed some interesting tidbits. Tyrion is his favorite character and, despite the "no regrets" sentiments he expressed at the previous panel, he admitted that he feels hesitation over how to write him - George feels conflict between not wanting to make the guy seem like a dick because he likes Tyrion and portraying someone who has been through what Tyrion has been through, along with all the hurt, confusion, and betrayal that comes along with. George also admitted that he had a hard time writing the "Red Wedding" scene in the third book - indeed, he had to skip it, write the rest of the book, and force himself to come back and do the deed. He claimed it was perhaps harder on him than on us because for him all of the minor characters who perished in the massacre were also people he created and plotted and now they too are gone. Could it be that George Martin, like Veronica Mars, is a Marshmellow? .... Probably not. ;)
After the reading, I tried to offer the Brotherhood some local expertise on restaurants, but we quickly determined that it's hard to seat a party of 15 on Saturday night on short notice in Boston. Given that no progress would be made on this until the group re-convened at 6...
With the con events that I was after wrapped up, it was back to the Brotherhood, who'd settled on Jasper White's Summer Shack primarily because it was prepared to seat all of us. It had the added advantage of being across the street, since it was bleeping cold out. After dinner, it was back upstairs to an impressively full bar (George and Stego donated various prizes to be raffled off in order to fund the refreshments) and a bathtub full of ice, soda, and beer. A lot of fun was had.
... But the BWB were good company in general. George wandered by again to chat, have drinks, etc. I learned how the process of bidding for the right to host WorldCon is not unlike the Olympics (bribery in the form of parties apparently both welcome and expected), and in turn had to explain the old "Jesus Saves, everone else takes full damage" gaming gag because people didn't get it and were staring at an ICon poster wondering if it was some sort of weird Christian Con. (Good work, vampedvixen. ;))
Overall, both the party(-ies) and the Con were a lot of fun. I hope stuff like this lands in my neighborhood more often. :)
I actually, quite randomly, ended up following George RR Martin to the building, and I held the door as he entered. I picked up my registration at 5pm (yay for preregistering and not having to wait in line) and killed time people watching as I waited for his first panel to start.
The first panel was at 5:30 and was about "Magical Realism"--more or less, how one should or shouldn't write magic in fiction. Nothing too interesting, and Martin didn't really talk much about his own work, just cited historical precedent and other authors who have done well or poorly. There were a couple of very strange and babbly women on the panel who I found endlessly irritating. Although Martin did call one of them out on her inanity. Someone wrote it up here on the asoiaf board, which I'll quote:
Ms Gilman was asked some sort of question about inherent mythology in her world, and she stated that her world's inhabitants know that if they do not perform certain rites, then the sun wil not come up.
George then said, and I am paraphrasing, "Well, they don't know that for sure, do they? They've never tested it."
Greer: "They just know. If certain things aren't done, the sun will not come up."
George: "Has the sun ever not come up before?"
Greer: "No."
George: "So how do they know? They only suspect."
A flustered Greer: "They know, just as they know that if they drop a pot it will shatter."
A jovial George: "They know that because they've dropped pots before."
Sarah Smith: "Well in my books, the magic is very subtle."
Heheheh.
...
At 7:30, Martin read a chapter from the upcoming book A Dance with Dragons (which the kid introducing him incorrectly called Dances with Dragons, giving me hideous visions of Kevin Costner as Ned Stark....). It was a Davos chapter, and I find Davos to be one of the most painfully dull characters in the series, so I haven't much to say about it. Hearing George read it the way he means it was cool though--you pick up more from having the author himself read it, I think.
Next morning we were up for a quick bagel and coffee breakfast (there are approximately 700 million coffee places in the Harvard Square area, and I wanted to try as many as possible) and a panel called "All You Need Is Love", about love and sex in fiction. It was okay, though it's not like Martin is a master of romance fiction, y'know? He did say he prefers tragic love stories (a la Romeo and Juliet) which gave me even less hope for Jaime and Brienne. He also ridiculed the concept of "gratuitous" and defended his inclusion of sex scenes (as he is trying to create an immersive experience, and sex is a huge part of peoples' lives and is necessary for his development of characters).
Afterward we got some books signed at the nearby bookstore. I asked Martin "Did you intend for Jaime Lannister to be such a complex character from the beginning, or is that one of the things that grew in the telling?" He said that he likes exploring grey characters and always intended for Jaime to be complex, but some details grew in the telling. 10zlaine told him she likes his blog.
After lunch we headed over to Martin's 5pm guest of honor speech, which was in another fascinating Harvard building. Fascinating and complex, as no one in the crowd or on the concomm could figure out how to turn on the lights, so Martin gave the speech in the dark (with a small light behind him lighting his notes).
The speech was quite good, and was about why we read fiction. He suggested a variety of answers, some of which rang more true than others, and finally settled upon "vicarious experience." Then he went into a fascinating sort of existential thing about the nature of memory, how we live only in the present moment and how we are defined and created by our memories, and so if we remember, say, Lord of the Rings more vividly than we remember the street we grew up on, isn't Lord of the Rings at least as big a part of who we are?
It was really interesting, and got me to thinking about how that applies to other forms of art, and whether the music I love means so much because it evokes the memory of who I was when I loved it most, or because it's a form of vicarious emotional experience, or whether love of music is more closely related to one of the other reasons he suggested which is the beauty of the words themselves (you could also apply that to the sound and rhythm of music).
I hope he posts the speech somewhere; I haven't really done it justice in summary.
He also answered some questions, and had some interesting things to say. He repeatedly emphasized that he prefers to write grey characters, because in real life people are complex; no one is pure evil or pure good. Fiction tends to divide people into heroes who do no wrong and villains who go home and kick their dogs and beat their wives, but that reality is much different. He cited a soldier who heroically saves his friends' lives, but then goes home and beats his wife. Which is he, hero or villain? Martin said both and that neither act cancels out the other.
He also said that he's suspicious of creators who try to answer questions with their work, and emphasized that he prefers to ask questions. He explained that those who try to answer usually end up with the wrong answers (and cited L. Ron Hubbard as an example) but that those who ask are getting people to think and figure things out for themselves. (Oh, Joss Whedon and Rob Thomas, if only you were as wise as George R. R. Martin!!!!)
He didn't offer much in the way of spoilers, but did say that we'd see Arya and Asha in this book, that there would be one new POV but hopefully no more after that (and that they'll continue to keep dropping off), that the timeline of the new book may continue past AFFC but that it depends on the length, and that we'll definitely see Casterly Rock and may see Highgarden.
Someone asked why he writes so much about outcasts and misfits, and he said on one level he relates to that, and that on another level everyone is weird or a misfit in some way. He said aside from the obvious (Brienne, Tyrion), Davos is a misfit because of his low birth (he always feels uncomfortable with his high status) and Ned is a misfit because he feels like he's living his brother's life (marrying Cat, being Lord of Winterfell) which isn't necessarily what he wanted or would have chosen.
I kept trying to formulate a question, but all I really came up with was "Why are the Lannisters the only people in Westeros who have a sense of humor (aside from the QoT, of course)?" and something about the way he seems to be consciously creating as many diverse and interesting female characters as male characters, but I never even formulated that as a proper question. I suppose it's a good thing that I get pretty much everything I need from his books, understand most of what he's doing, and really have no burning questions or things I don't "get." This may be different once the series is actually over, however.
...
We returned at 9pm to yet another Harvard building for "Once More, With Dragons," which was kind of musical/comedy collection of ASOIAF-related sketches. Mr. Martin was in the front row, [info]10zlaine and I in the second. It was very funny. You can read a summary here.
It was amusing to see, for example, Jaime Lannister as Darth Vader, announcing to Joffrey that he's his father (Joffrey's reaction--horrific disgust, of course).
The best part was the Westeros version of celebrity jeopardy, with Robert Baratheon, Hodor, and Arya Stark as contestants. And there was a "Lannister and Stark" song sung to the "Beauty and the Beast" tune with the characters fighting in the background.
...
At 1pm was Martin's final appearance, an "interview," in which he elaborated on his speech and answered more questions. It went a bit over time, because they didn't need the room yet and he agreed to keep answering as long as we kept asking. I was getting so sick of questions about like, gaming and RPGs and other such boring stuff, so I finally forced myself to raise my hand and ask a question (you have no idea how hard this was), which was something like "Jaime Lannister is one of the most complex characters I've read, and the growth he goes through is so interesting. Can you talk more about that or what inspired that?" (Yeah, I know, as far as I'm concerned it's "the Jaime Lannister series.")
So he said that he likes to paint characters in shades of grey (recurring theme of the weekend, yay! so refreshing from these damn didactic TV show runners... anyway....). And that even what seem like the most horrific people have other sides, aren't pure caricatures of evil, that even Hitler had his nice moments. And he wanted to explore what might cause that kind of villainy, because no one just wakes up and says "I want to be evil today," and that Jaime didn't start out evil--that he actually was a very idealistic young man who was disillusioned by life, and that there was always much more to his killing of Arys than just "evil."
Since he was going on so much about Jaime as "exploration of evil" (and I certainly don't think Jaime is evil anymore!) I kind of tried to ask "Do you think he's changed?" to get him to talk about Jaime's redemption arc, so he said something like he wanted to explore the concept of forgiveness and whether it's ever possible to be forgiven for doing such horrible things, and that his goal was to ask the question, not give an answer.
Um, so that was neat. (Well, except for the fact that Hitler came to his mind when talking about Jaime!)
Various characters and ghosts were hanging around one of those nebulous out of character bars. The leadin for the World of Westeros video was that Mellisandre was playing the new George Martin MMORPG, but she complains of how one incompetent player can ruin a whole raid. Cut to a complete re-enactment of the Leeroy Jenkins video. (This was also a clever use of props, as the actress was running the computer with the powerpoint show and video on it, and thus provided an in character explanation for why she had it.)
(In the original WoW video, a guild is sitting around in the middle of a raid on a dungeon, trying to figure out how to survive the next room. The plan they come up with is horrible, and their stats guy gives them a 32.33%, repeating of course, chance of survival, which is relative good for their plans apparently. During the whole discussion, a character named Leeroy is sitting with his "Away from keyboard" tag on. Suddenly, Leeroy speaks up, "Okay guys, I'm back, let's do this. LEEEEEEROY JEEEENKINS!!!!" Leeroy charges in, the raid sits there for a moment in stunned silence and then follows him, the leader crying for everyone to stick to the plan. Everyone dies. Video ends with the raid leader declaring "Leeroy, you're an idiot".)
For the spoof, someone rolled up a bunch of low level characters named after various Martin characters and recreated the video nearly scene by scene. Stannis was the raid leader, discussing their plan to topple Joffrey, Mellisandre was the stats person, and Ned Stark was the AFK NedJenkins, with a guest cameo by RobbStark, who also gets himself killed. It was pretty hard to catch all of the dialog, unfortunately. Maybe if we're lucky the Vericon folks will post the video somewhere. After the video ends, with Stannis declaring that Ned is an idiot, enter the ghost of Ned, who protests that he isn't that stupid. Everyone laughs, but he swears he had competition. Cut to Celebrity Jeopardy.
The contestants are:
Robert Baretheon, playing the Sean Connery role
Hodor
Arya Stark, who has added Alex Trebek to the end of The List.
Quotes and questions:
Trebek: And our last category, discussing Sam and Aemon's journey across the sea, Maester Boating!
Robert: AH HAHAHAHA!!!
Trebek: *sees double entendre* Uh... let's change that to World Religions.
Trebek: House banners for 200. This animal is on the banner of House Lannister. *picture of lion flashes up on screen*
Arya: What is the broken corpse of a rat snapped in two by the jaws of a wolf?
Trebek: Don't we all wish. Hodor?
Hodor: HODOR!
Trebek: No.
Robert: The Lannisters are a bunch of pussies!
Trebek: Judges? Yes, we'll give you that one.
Trebek: This man is the true father of Joffrey, who has fair hair and green eyes like all the Lannisters and unlike all of Robert's bastards. Robert: Who is me? Trebek: No. Anyone? The answer, surprizing as it might be to some is Jamie Lannister. *Cut across stage to Jaime and Joffrey* Jaime: What did they tell you about your father? Joffrey: They told me my father was killed in a hunting accident! Jaime: *deep voice* No, Joffrey. I am your father. Joffrey: NO!!!! It's not possible!!!! Jaime: Join me and we will rule Westeros together as father and son. Joffrey: Ack, can't get the image out of my head, no!!!!
Trebek: And now for Final Jeopardy. To give Hodor a fair chance, the question is to write your own name. All you have to do is write your name and you win. *music interlude* Alright, Arya, let's see what you wrote.
Arya's board: Nobody.
Trebek: No.
Arya: Cat? Salty? The Ghost of Harrenhal?
Trebek: Give up. Robert, what did you write?
Robert's board: others
Trebek: No, Robert, you're not a bunch of wraiths seeking to over-run Westeros. Let's see what you wagered.
Robert's board: *letters appear around the "others" to reveal* Your mother's a whore.
Robert: *laughs*
Trebek: *sighs* Hodor, I suppose we should see what you've done...
Hodor's board: Hodor
Trebek: Wow. I guess you do know how to to write your own name. Let's see what you wagered.
Hodor's board: Hodor
Trebek: I should have seen that coming.
There was also a segment where Mellisandre cast a spell to let the audience hear character's thoughts, Earshot-style. By far the best of these was Jaime's, which was just him repeating "Lancel and Osney Kettleblack and Moonboy too!" over and over again. :) Then there was a musical number "Lannister and Stark" to the tune of "Beauty and the Beast", as the obligatory fight breaks out. The show ends when the waiter orders everyone who isn't prepared to refrain from fighting to leave, pretty much everyone does, and suddenly the waiter falls over dead, shot by a crossbow for no apparent reason. The folks left on stage shrug, saying that people always die in George Martin tales.
I'm not sure if George Martin got all of the jokes or not, but he seemed to think the show was pretty funny.
The promised reading from the forthcoming book was the first Davos POV chapter. The Hand of Stannis gets dragged before a minor lord nominally loyal to Kings Landing and is left with nothing but his wits to plead his case. There aren't major developments - indeed, Davos has yet to be filled in on events from the closing chapters of the third book. But the Onion Knight's usual mix of honesty and insight get to work as he once again needs to talk his way out of a potential watery grave. I wasn't terribly fond of him when he was first introduced (to be fair, a large part of my reaction was nothing specific to Davos and more "Oh no, not another POV character I need to remember who'll further dilute the frequency of Jon, Arya, and Tyrion chapters"), but he's grown on me since and this tale showcased why. Here's hoping that, as is often the case with Martin books, the news we heard second-hand of the Onion Knight in the fourth book turns out to be false.
Other tidbits of the future:
When asked about how the structure of having books 4 and 5 run in parallel would work, Martin said that the timeline *might* advance beyond the end of where it was as book 4 wrapped, if he still had space. I wouldn't count on it - as he explains, the series will be seven books long, that's his story, and he's sticking to it, so forget all the rumors you may have heard of 3, 4, or 6. Oh yeah, and the only real spoiler...
Some POV characters from Book 4 will return, including Arya! :) (Of course, this merely means we'll be waiting six years to find out what happens to her next instead of the 10 it'll take for book 6....)
Paraphrases as close as I can remember them:
- *when asked about how the villians of his tale all seem to have deeper motivations* "Villians are the other side's heroes.... they have motivations too, it's not like anyone wakes up and thinks "Hmmm, what evil can I do today?"
- *asked about violence, especially towards women, in his book* I get surprizingly few complaints about the violence. Moreso about the sex. I can write a graphic description of what happens when an axe enters someone's head, but when a penis enters a vagina. Our country is surprizingly alright with axes entering skulls and not alright with penises entering vaginas... I get letters about how people bought a fantasy book and got porn.
- *asked about how he goes about revising his books* "Well, 'A Feast for Crows' took a bit longer than we expected." [the book was announced for 2001 and came out in Nov of 2005]
(Later on in his answer, he commented on something I noticed during the reading, namely that he was reading the manuscript with pen in hand and actually writing down tweaks as he went, which was kinda nifty.)
- Asked by GA how he keeps all this stuff straight (to much laughter in the room): Well, I've been living in Westeros since 1991. The part of my brain that would remember people I met today or errands I was supposed to do goes to recalling the second spearman from the left and [name of the minor lord from the Davos chapter that GA's already forgotten], who I might never use again, but has his moment in the spotlight here.
(On followups by other folks, he said that he's not tired of writing this tale despite the long time he's been at it, though he concedes that "A Dance with Dragons" has been his nemesis - when the series was to be three volumes long, Dragons was to be the middle one, and it keeps getting pushed back. He says that we can get worried about the overall length of the series if the next book to come out isn't Dragons. :))
Vericon is a wonderful concept; a small college convention catering primarily to youth. There is anime aplenty, webcomics galore, and cosplay abounds. Furries rub shoulders with those present for the Dance Dance Revolution tournament, while the CCG people huddled in their bunkers strategizing world domination through cardboard.
It was a geekfest in grand Harvard style.
On Friday night, George had a panel on magic with lesser known authors Greer Gilman and Sarah Smith.
Ms Gilman was asked some sort of question about inherent mythology in her world, and she stated that her world's inhabitants know that if they do not perform certain rites, then the sun wil not come up.
George then said, and I am paraphrasing, "Well, they don't know that for sure, do they? They've never tested it."
Greer: "They just know. If certain things aren't done, the sun will not come up."
George: "Has the sun ever not come up before?"
Greer: "No."
George: "So how do they know? They only suspect."
A flustered Greer: "They know, just as they know that if they drop a pot it will shatter."
A jovial George: "They know that because they've dropped pots before."<
Sarah Smith: "Well in my books, the magic is very subtle."
I found this exchange hilarious. I just thought I'd share it.
After the panel, George gave a reading from A Dance With Dragons, and although it was the Davos chapter he had previously read, this was the first time he had officially done a reading from ADwD. If you want spoilers from the chapter, wonderful ones are provided already in the ADwD forum.
After the reading we (my wife Maureen and I) went back to George's suite with him and some of the convention organizers. We ordered in pizza and soda, and spent the next few hours in an ever-fascinating conversation.
It's always a surprise how wonderful and interesting a human being George is. I never fail to be amazed.
On Saturday, George sat on a panel about 'Love in Fantasy' which inevitably turned to 'Sex in Fantasy.' I wasn't present at the panel, but that's the report I got. (Maureen and I were sleeping in after a long Friday night.)
We also missed his signing across the street at the Harvard Book Store in the early afternoon. Harvard campus is a difficult place to find parking, so we had taken the train in. I was simply NOT willing to take my beloved collectibles on public transportation, so I'm holding off on getting things signed until Boskone. (3 weeks is hardly a long time)
On Saturday afternoon, George gave his Guest of Honor speech. The topic was 'Why We Read,' and like all of Martin's work, it was moving. I'd like to get a transcript at some point.....perhaps he'll make it available at his website. His assertion was that we read for vicarious experience. He's fought a thousand wars, loved a thousand women, all from the comfort of his home. I'm incapable of condensing his hour long speech and expressing all he touched upon... here's hoping he makes it available.
After the speech, Maureen and I took George out for a burger at the local 'famous burger place.' There's something infinitely cool about having a burger with your favorite author.
Saturday night featured ASoIaF skits performed by the Harvard SF association. This included an 'ICE and FIRE PUB: Live Characters Only' skit that was Westeros meets Cheers. Then there was a World of Warcraft Westeros movie which portrayed Ned Stark as the infamous Leeroy Jenkins. "That dumbass got everybody killed!"
Then came the grand finale....... Celebrity Jeopardy in Westeros. The contestants were Arya Stark, Hodor, and Robert Baratheon. (as Sean Connery from Saturday Night Lives Celebrity Jeopardy skits) Alex Trebek was the host, of course.
In classic celebrity Jeopardy style, Trebek gets sick of the constant stupidity and moves on to final Jeopardy where he asks the contestants to write down their names.
Arya, of course, has a hard time with this task. She just has too many names. She ends up getting mad and adding Alex Trebek to her infamous 'list.' "Ser Gregor, The Hound, The Tickler, Raff The Sweetling, Alex Trebek."
Hodor got his name right. (His first correct answer of the evening.) Unfortunately, his wager was Hodor.
King Robert's answer to 'Write down your name' was 'Other's.' Of course King Robert Baratheon is not an Other...... but the answer made sense when his wager was revealed, and the entire sentence came into view.....
"You're mOther's a whore, Trebek!"
George was howling with mirth, and I for one almost peed myself.
I'm trying to get a recording of the skits on tape so that I can upload it and share it. If unavailable, the entire skit may be performed again at Boskone in a few weeks..... at least I'm trying to make that happen. Stay tuned.
We finished up the evening in proper BwB fashion, drinking at a local brew pub.
We said our farewells to George at a reasonably late hour, with a "see you in a few weeks at Boskone!" I've promised George that we will make Boskone memorable for him, and that many more BwB members will make it. You all need to help me fulfill this promise. Stay tuned for that, as well.
-----I forgot to add that we were not priviledged this weekend with the presence of the wonderful Parris. She was indeed missed.
...
I don't know what other's have heard and passed on.....
My understanding from what I've heard is that "Yes, we will see Arya." Asha was NEVER mentioned.
I asked George later "But will Arya see us?" He said, of course not.....she's a fictional character....she can't see the reader. "But will she see...I dunno.....anything?"
"That would be telling," he said merrily.
The book, as I understand it will feature Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Davos, and probably Theon(?) and the other mystery POV. Arya will be in towards the end, he said.